All nations collect intelligence, Obama says
Magazine: U.S. bugged EU offices
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
- NEW: The U.S. State Department says any talks with Europe on spying will be private
- President Obama says all nations, including European allies, spy on each other
- EU to sweep for bugs after news outlets report on alleged U.S. surveillance
- Der Spiegel reports that the U.S. bugged EU offices and infiltrated a computer network
(CNN) -- President Barack Obama responded to outrage
by European leaders over revelations of alleged U.S. spying on them by
saying Monday that all nations, including those expressing the strongest
protests, collect intelligence on each other.
The German news magazine Der Spiegel reported Sunday that classified leaks by former National Security Agency contractor
Edward Snowden
detailed NSA bugging of European Union offices in Washington and New
York, as well as an "electronic eavesdropping operation" that tapped
into an EU building in Brussels.
Mounting anger throughout
Europe on Monday included a threat by French President Francois
Hollande to halt talks with the United States on trade and other issues
unless the bugging stopped.
U.S. and EU officials are scheduled to begin talks on a proposed trans-Atlantic free trade agreement next week.
The European Commission
will sweep its offices for electronic listening devices and other
security breaches, a spokeswoman said Monday.
Asked at a news
conference in Tanzania about the latest leaks involving Snowden, Obama
said he needed more information on the specific programs cited in the
Der Spiegel report, but made clear such spying was commonplace.
"I guarantee you that in
European capitals, there are people who are interested in, if not what I
had for breakfast, at least what my talking points might be should I
end up meeting with their leaders," Obama said. "That is how
intelligence services operate."
Meanwhile, Russian
President Vladimir Putin opened the door on Monday to Snowden possibly
staying in Russia. The admitted NSA leaker has been in the international
transit lounge of the Moscow airport seeking asylum in Ecuador.
Snowden "must stop his
work aimed at harming our American partners" if he wants to stay in
Russia, Putin said. Previously, Putin had said Snowden should depart the
airport for his final destination, wherever it might be.
Conflicting reports
emerged Monday that Snowden was seeking asylum in Russia. State
Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell was unable to provide clarity to
reporters.
"We don't have
information one way or another" about an asylum request for Russia,
Ventrell said, later adding that Snowden "appears to still be in Russia
and our position is the same that he should be expelled and returned
home here to the U.S."
Obama said Monday that
Snowden had traveled to Russia without a valid passport or legal papers,
and he hoped that Moscow would handle the case as it would any other
travel-related matter.
The president confirmed
that the United States and Russia have had "high-level" discussions
about Snowden, after an earlier report from Russia that the two nations'
top law enforcement officials were working together to resolve the
situation.
The new bugging
controversy follows earlier European discontent over revelations of U.S.
surveillance of overseas e-mails related to terrorism, as well as the
collection of phone records as a database for further court-approved
investigation.
Obama sought to
distinguish between what he portrayed as normal intelligence-gathering
and the specific anti-terrorism programs disclosed by Snowden's earlier
leaks to The Guardian newspaper in London and the Washington Post.
In the end, he said,
U.S. and European allies "work so closely together that there is almost
no information that is not shared between our various countries."
Hollande, however, said
bugging of EU offices went beyond the anti-terrorism programs previously
revealed and must stop immediately before negotiations can go forward.
"We know that there are
systems which have to control notably for the threat against terrorism,
but I do not think that this is in our embassies or in the EU that this
risks exist," he said.
Der Spiegel
reported the allegations Sunday, citing information from secret documents obtained by
Snowden and "in part seen" by the news magazine.
In Brussels, Der Spiegel
says, the agency targeted the Justus Lipsius Building, which houses the
European Council and the EU Council of Ministers, the union's main
decision-making and legislative body.
And in Washington, the
magazine report claims, the NSA installed bugs in the European Union's
building and infiltrated its computer network.
To Michael Hayden, a former director of the NSA and CIA, the report reflected the reality of international spying.
"Any European who wants
to go out and rend their garments with regard to international espionage
should look first and find out what their governments are doing," he
told CBS on Sunday.
Obama declined to
comment in-depth on the Der Spiegel article, saying his staff needs to
analyze the report to figure out which, if any, U.S. surveillance
programs it involved.
"When we have an answer
we will make sure to provide all the information that our allies want in
what exactly the allegations have been," he said.
Describing himself as
"the end user of this kind of intelligence," Obama said he telephones
Hollande or German Chancellor Angela Merkel or British Prime Minister
David Cameron if he wants to know what they're thinking.
"Ultimately, you know,
we work so closely together that there is almost no information that is
not shared between our various countries," Obama said.
Reactions abroad
The reports elicited
particular outrage in Germany, where Der Spiegel reported that NSA
spying had targeted telephone and Internet connection data in Germany
more than any other European nation.
Citing the Snowden
documents, the news magazine reported that an average of up to 20
million phone connections and 10 million Internet data connections are
surveyed daily. Der Spiegel noted that the intensity of surveillance
puts the U.S. ally on par with China, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.
Merkel's spokesman, Steffan Seibert, cautioned Monday against taking the report as fact without further confirmation.
"If it is, though,
confirmed that diplomatic representations of the EU and some European
countries were spied upon, we have to say clearly: The bugging of
friends is unacceptable," Seibert said. "That cannot happen at all. We
are no longer in the Cold War."
The German and French
foreign ministries planned to meet with the U.S. ambassadors to those
countries to talk about the allegations.
The Italian Foreign
Ministry called the reports "a very thorny affair," while European
Parliament President Martin Schulz said Sunday he was "deeply worried
and shocked" by the claims.
"If the allegations
prove to be true, it would be an extremely serious matter which will
have a severe impact on EU-U.S. relations," he said.
Another report Sunday claimed that surveillance extended beyond European offices.
The Guardian newspaper
reported that one NSA document leaked by Snowden describes 38 embassies
and missions as "targets" and details surveillance methods that include
planting bugs in communications equipment and collecting transmissions
with specialized antennae.
Targets included France, Italy, Greece, Japan, Mexico, South Korea, India and Turkey, according to The Guardian.
CNN has not independently confirmed the allegations in the reports from Der Spiegel and The Guardian.
What the U.S. has to say
The U.S. Director of National Intelligence's office declined to comment Sunday on specific allegations published in Der Spiegel.
"The United States
government will respond appropriately to the European Union through our
diplomatic channels, and through the EU/U.S. experts' dialogue on
intelligence that the U.S. proposed several weeks ago," the DNI office
said in a statement. "We will also discuss these issues bilaterally with
EU member states. While we are not going to comment publicly on
specific alleged intelligence activities, as a matter of policy, we have
made clear that the United States gathers foreign intelligence of the
type gathered by all nations."
Ventrell referred to the
DNI statement Monday, repeatedly telling reporters that the United
States would deal directly with European allies on the matter instead of
making public statements.
Snowden
has revealed himself
as the source of documents outlining a massive effort by the NSA to
track cell phone calls and monitor the e-mail and Internet traffic of
virtually all Americans.
Now Snowden faces espionage charges in the United States and was seeking asylum from Ecuador.
Vice President Joe Biden
asked Ecuador "to please reject" the request for asylum, according to Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa.
Snowden and his asylum bid
On Saturday night, Correa said the ball was in Russia's court.
"In order to process
this request, he needs to be in Ecuadorian territory," Correa said in an
interview with Ecuador's Oromar TV on Saturday night. "At this point,
the solution for Snowden's final destination is in the hands of the
Russian authorities."